DOES IT OR DOESN'T IT MATTER????

[Angie]

Hello everyone! I am new to this sight and I must say that there are really some interesting topics being discussed. Especially on marriage and relationships. That led me to want to ask a question that I know has so many opinions. Because I would like to be married one day and knowing how important the subject is to me, I would like to know why do women feel as though it's alright to settle and not be married just to please their men? Why are women afraid or neglectant to push the subject of a real committment? Why do women feel as though their men deserve to be happy while they suffer silently, knowing that marriage is good in God's eyesight? To what lengths would they go to just keep things "happy" in their relationship? At what point do they put aside their morals and beliefs and say they don't need to be married to spend their entire lives with a man? To women and men with daughters, do you feel it's ok to teach your daughters that it's alright to be everything to a man who can't commit to them "legally"? I would just like to hear what you all think about this. I would love to hear the different views of those who are married, would like to be married, or will never marry.

[Nicholle]

Angie, this is a good question. I really got stuck on the "Legally" part, because I am taking a class that looks at how effective "laws" really are in life.

(A good example is the Civil Rights Act- it made discrimination illegal, but people still did it, so we ask do we need to keep the law if it really doesn't "do" anything or is the law "real" if it does not make anything happen? Or in the case of marriage, its legal for certain people, and they do it, but then there is a 50% divorce rate, so are marriage rights just an abuse of the law, and does that abuse of it make it less valuable of a right/law?)

Having said that, one of my good friends and I often debate whether or not we "need" the stamp of the United States government (or your county, or city's) permission/approval when it comes to making commitments in our lives. So, I would add to your list, is marriage just something on paper? Does the paper matter if the person has already committed to you and you to them? Why does the stamp of the courts make it "real" when more of your day to day interaction with the person affects your real life, not that paper that gets put in a drawer or photo album or file box?

I struggle with this critique because, like you I would like to be married one day, but then again, from a very practical standpoint, I have to ask myself why I need/want the governments approval for me to live in a certain relationship with someone else. It makes me question the idea of "word as bond" and if this man says he is committed, and he is here doing what he said he would do, do I need the state to cosign on his commitment?

I guess I want to know why we put so much emphasis on this public declaration (weddings) and this government paper (marriage licenses) when the reality of the situation is acted out totally in private? Plus, its not like God is not already aware of what we are doing and our intentions (or an actual commitment) towards each other.

Any other time, we want the government out of our business, but in this aspect we want them to sanction what we have already been doing anyway in a lot of cases.

I am torn too, and would like to know what the moms think!

[Angie]

Thanks for replying. You make a really good point in what you're saying. I also don't think that you need the government's stamp of approval either but I was actually referring to legally as something that's good in God's eyes. A spiritual committment. Thanks once again.

[Bran]

A legal "stamp" sometimes can be pleasing to GOD. It speaks of laws and rules and documents and also having a properly documented witness for marriage in the bible. There are soooo many politics that go along with this topic....like being respected by inlaws, legalities, hospital issues, financial issues. Alot of people put a dividing line between politics and bibliography, when ther is really a close relation. I'm sure GOD thought about all those things when he sent us the good book....Its always refreshing to see and hear different vantage points.

[Bran]

Well I'm guessing that about 75% of women in a relaionship have co-dependency issues, that underlying thought in the back of their head that they might grow old alone. They might have been in a relationship for years and are just used to the help and are afraid of the thought of doing it alone. Alot of times men present themselves as aspiring to the same goals as the woman just to secure that she stays around. Then a few years down the road it becomes evident that maybe they have two different sets of goals with two differant ways of getting there or maybe just don't have the self discipline to live the way that they REALLY want to. I always tell ladies ,"You can't look at how a man treats you when you first begin courting/dating, you look at how he treats everybody else when things dont go his way. Then you will see how he will treat you when things are not going so smoothly." I went through exactly what you are speaking of. When I first met my husband I had already had two kids, we seemed to share the same goals. We were both from the same neighborhoods and had less than model behavior and both shared a desire to have a family and settle down and desired a close relationship with the LORD. As time went on we got engaged and said we would wait for things to be financially right to have a wedding. One year turned to two and so on, then came more children. We had many-a-hard time for few years until I realized something. We had been blessed in many situations don't get me wrong, but we where "playing house" in the eyes of the LORD and I believe that is why we have had to endure a lot of the strife that we encountered.Just think about it, the LORD has to give you a "spankin'" when you want to learn the hard way (lol). Many times I would tell my guy, "The LORD will not wait for me to wait on you," and I threatened to leave but I did not. I sat tight telling myself the LORD will work it out. We were covered individually but not as a UNION. Things went from bad to worse and eventually I did leave. I felt as though the LORD had worked on my heart so, that I had no other choice but to step out on faith and trust HIM. I thought to myself ,"My life is not perfect but I have a good man who loves me and our kids, maybe I'm being a little hard on him, so why I am I so compelled to leave him? So one day I read the story of the "ram in the bush", and what I got from it is that sometimes the LORD might tell you to do things that dont make "worldly"sense and sometimes he might instruct you just to see if you are listening and being obedient. I always thought that if I threaten to leave my man, he might just find someone else and I lived in fear of that until that day. I did not leave him to satisfy my own interest, I left because I felt like regardless of all the issues in the middle that my salvation was more important and if I ended up without a man I knew that my heavenly father is a father to the fatherless. After a few patchy spots my actions lead to a renewed open honest relationship and communication with my fiance'. After a while he started to see things differently. He had finally noticed my personal growth and the change in my spirit and began to notice how immature I actually was. He said if the LORD could touch my heart in such a way maybe he ought to give HIM a try too. I told him that if I had to go through all this heartache for him to even be interested in the LORD, then it was well worth the pain to see him give his life over to the LORD. We had 6 children at the time, we where abstinant for a few months then we got married. After that we developed a fasting, prayer, and suplication routine for several months as repentence for the years that we have lived in sin. I have three daughters and one of them is approaching 13, I had her when I was 16 as you could imagine we arevery close because we grew up together. At some point I thought, "How could I tell my daughter to save herself and all that good stuff when I didn;t". That was a trick of "we-know-who, I didn't fall for it. I am open and honest with my girls and I believe my 13 year old will know first hand how important it is to "live right". She was there for all my mistakes and all my blessings. To all the women ....Don't live in silence if you are not happy. Sometimes you have to shake things up to be heard, I'm not saying go to the extreme. Just listen to your own heart. Marriage is not bliss but it feels good not to have to guilt of fornication hanging on my head, and to be able to pray for my husband and not my b/f.

[Mrs. Hall]

Marriage is more than just some legal document. If anyone feels it's just a piece of paper PLEASE do not get married. It's a commitment two people are making towards each other and God. If a man says "I’m going to be with you, love you and take care of you" but then he doesn't want to marry you then HELLO something's not right. You should be working on something solid in your relationship; you shouldn't be at a standstill. Shacking up with no interest of marriage leaves you in a standstill, what's the purpose of working hard to maintain your relationship when it's not headed anywhere? The last thing anyone should do that wants to be married is to settle, settling makes your relationship one sided. Weddings should be a celebration of the next step in your life, like a graduation party (lol). Divorce rate is off the chain, but that has to do with the individuals in THAT marriage, no one should base their relationship off that. (Great comment about the government Nicholle, but i was thinking......) When people shack up what tends to happen, babies are born, and when the man leaves where do we (women in general) run, straight to the government for help so why should we want the government involved in one aspect of our relationship but not the other? I think I got off the subject a little but these are just my random thoughts. This is a very great topic, wonder why there isn't many posts on it. Oh but to answer the question i vote that it does matter.

Have a great day ladies.

[Shanie Taylor]

Hi Angie

I personally look at marriage as a contract. In order words, if you take away all the knowledge and history that were taught and has been practiced to you about marriges; what is left of the process? I feel that it is a contract by two indivisuals for an upcomming secure future. It is a legal commitment to make sure that the person who you are involved with doesn't screw you in the end. In any case that the relationship fails, you would be able to move on with your life without any financial or guardianship misconceptions.

I feel that you can have the same relationship with a husbun as with a lover. The same thing that happens when you are married can happen when you are faithfully commmited to a guy, (good or bad). Perfect example, the same way that married couples try to fight for thier marriages to work when hardtimes call; two indivisuals who loves each other unconditionally will scramble too.

So I feel that woman shouldn't tell thier daughters "you shouldn;t date a guy who wouldn;t commmit legally", instead we should say to them to "make sure they build tust, respect and honesty with the person that they plan to spend thier rest of thier lives with and make sure he returns the favor". Whereas, a good relationship is primarly based on those aspects. To conclude, I WOULD like to get married, but it isn;t a big deal if I don't.

Anyone else feels the same???

[EducatedDiva, MPA]

My personal belief is that society and the media have made it appear acceptable to forego marriage. People's moral compasses have become unreliable because they've strayed away from the fundamental principles upon which relationships, and this nation were built upon. I too would like to be married someday, but most men that I've dated have fed into the lie perpetuated by society to keep our homes broken and unstable: "If we dig each other, we don't need a piece of paper to say that." And unfortunately, too many women have been sucked in by that line and feel that, a piece of a man is better than no man at all. How dreadful!

[Nappykat]

Please know that to a lot of men, marriage means 'legally' not necessarily 'spiritually' or 'religiously.' More women seem to get caught up in the 'spiritual' or religiously side of marriage and forget that marriage is a LEGAL contract with the STATE first and foremost before it is 'religious' one - and the LEGAL part of marriage has a helluva lot more ramifications and consequences than the spiritual or religious part of marriage.

And isn't is interesting that women seem to get caught up in the 'religious' part of marriage AFTER they done been with someone, fornicated, and had babies with the men? If you (general you) wanted 'god' to be the relationship, and your god forbids you to fornicate and have babies out of wedlock - then why in hell did you (general you) ignore 'god' in the first place to placate your own needs and desires to be with a man and not marry him first? Only AFTER you been with him for months and then years, had sex with him, and had a couple of babies with him are you now trying to find 'god' in a relationship as an excuse to sucker him into marrying you. But again I ask - where was 'god' in the beginning? The 'god' you chose to ignore because you wanted a man around and didn't want to pressure him into marriage so you went against the tenets of your religion and your 'god' to fornicate and make babies? Now you want marriage and it's 'well let's do right in the eye's of god and get married.'


Hypocrites are we?

But then 'we' get to be that way because as Christians say 'we are all sinners in the eyes of the lord and fall short of his glory' - that's basically a 'get out of jail free' card when you know you done F'ed up and need 'his' salvation to 'save' you from your F-up. You can take comfort that you are a sinner who F'up and fell short just like you was expected too.

I'm just sayin, be STRAIGHT UP about what you want. I think a lotta men are idiots but they ain't stupid and women are so easily led. You wanna fornicate - FORNICATE! Have your babies. Whenever you wanna get married - then either get married or leave the man if you doing what you wanna do. Or do whatever. But be truthful to yourself about what you want and LIVE WITH IT already! Don't lie to yourself just to placate the moment of the here and now so you can sucker someone into something else later.

I got more to add but I'm running out of time. Maybe lata.

[Nappykat]

I guess the only other thing I will add is that women, society, and community need to stop defining women by their intimate relationship with men. Recently a girl I know is proud to announce that she is getting married at 27, and was kinda lamenting that she thought she was 'never gonna find a husband.' I'm thinking 'what? You're 27! Why would you be thinking like that now?' You (almost) never hear men in their 30's and 40's fearing that they are getting too old to find a wife or that chances of finding the right one are dwindling. Indeed they try to drag their batchlorhood out for as long as possible - to the 50's if they can!

And I've heard men use this erroneous 'not enough (black) men' to their own advantage - saying they don't have to get married right now or later because there is just so few of them and that women are desperate and they (men) have their have choices and pick of women - so why run and get married to only one woman?

I find it hurtful and decisive when women who have kids by multiple men are deemed as less 'worthy' or more 'used' than those who have no kids or few kids by one man. Again, this is judging a women by her intimate relationships in ways that few (if any) would judge a man. I see too much desperation in women in ways that I have not seen with men - desperation because of their age, number of children (with # of men), weight/size/looks, career and independence, whether they are welfare/Section 8, judge by the number of men they have slept with, etc - and we (women, men, society, community, religion) are pushing this desperation because we tell women all the friggin time 'YOU NEED A MAN! YOU NEED A HUSBAND!' And out of desperation women often wind up with a-holes (as witness by the numerous posts on bad/f-up/non-existent/problamatic relationships).

Women want love, presumably most want children, and just about all of them want mates - but no else besides you should define how you should do that, how you want that, and when you want it. The first person that is in the way you having the type of relationship that you want is.... you. And you are often f-up from listening to the stupidity of everyone else around you - who are not guiding you, but judging you and trying to tell you what to do.

Challenges are opportunities to grow and learn. You do not learn when you happy and things are going well because you are enjoying your happiness. Your relationships (good or bad - married or non) have contributed to the person you are. They have contributed to your growth and learning - and you should try to find out who that person is and what have you learned and how you have grown. Then you can get what you really want and stop making the 'mistakes' you think you are making.

Marriage is not the end-all be-all for a women or for anyone. If that's what you want - fine. Be straight up and don't lament the fact that you been with a dude for a certain amount of time and still ain't married. Obviously - to me, that type of relationship was what you wanted or you would not have accepted it in the first place.Think, learn, grow from it. So if you wanna get married, do it. If not, leave it be and do your thang as it is right for you. Just be happy and strive for knowledge of self above everything else.