Should parents (not just fathers) have to pay to see their children?

[Single Mama Diva]

Kim Crouch had a wonderful conversation that has been revived (Should Children Always Be Allowed to See Their Fathers?), check it out. The main reason most agreed that children should be seperated from their daddy was not abuse but non-payment of child support. This brings up the question:

Should parents (not just fathers) have to pay to see their children?

[Nappykat]

No.

But on the other hand, I guess it really depends. I'm thinking of situations where a man gets into a another relationship, has kids (either his own or step) in that new relationship and does for those kids because he's in the current relationship with their mother; but does nothing for kids in the last relationship even tho he is financially able to do so. I'd be hurt and resentful enough to say 'you ain't seeing my kids' too.

Even without court ordered CS, men that are able to do something for their kids - should. They should ask (the kids or the momma) if they need anything - diapers, shoes, clothes, milk, summer camp, something. If I'm the main parent and providing most of the financial, then it shouldn't be a problem to call up a working daddy and say 'Your son wants to get lessons to get become to become lifeguard - can you foot that?' and if he able to there is no reason he shouldn't.

I think in terms of what I would do and want if things were on the other foot. If my kids father is the primary caregiver financially and physically, and I'm working mom with good or decent money who can afford to offer something - I would do it without a problem. It shouldn't be manditory that I have to 'pay' to see my kids - that would be abdsurd, but I would offer what I can anyway - they are my kids afterall!

Every man can do a little something-something to help the momma out no matter what his situation. And for that, I think he should be able to see his kids.

Maybe some women just have straight deadbeats - dude ain't bought but one package of diapers and a pair of shoes in 8 years, ain't offered to take the kids anywhere to give her break or let them spend time with him - and he want all and complete access to his kids. I'd be like 'nig, get yo butt outta here! You ain't did nuthin for nobody!' That's understandable, but I'm ain't so sure it's right. I think it's important for a child to have and build a relationship with a parent - even with a deadbeat daddy. And he (the daddy) shouldn't have to pay for that (and the child shouldn't have to pay by having that part of the relationship denied).

[Single Mama Diva]

Well said!

[Ashanti Danielle Hasam]

All of your points are well stated but at the same time I have a few single father friends where the mother is just as much of a deadbeat and request extra cs for themselves to live off of. This is such a touchy topic. I mean it is yes and no. Money should not be the foundation for a relationship but at the same time it is difficult to be a sole provider. Just as well as there are deadbeat men there are many deadbeat women making it hard for genuine mothers out here. There are court systems making it very easy for money to be the basis of a relationship. Why can't child support also incorporate visitation and programs to teach men how to be parents. They have parents as teachers which primarily cater to females. Every situation is so different but all come down to the same basic elements lack of understanding, maturity, and money.

[Single Mama Diva]

Yeah, you're right! The man I am with is one of the fathers who took care of his daughter while her mother was on crack. His second baby's mom is robbing him blind with his other daughter for child support that she doesn't even need and WON'T let him even see his child. I am very aware of both sides. Your point is well taken.

[Nappykat]

Please be aware that when you are in a relationship with a man, it's very hard to be objective towards his other baby-mommas. How do you know that she doesn't 'need' all or whatever amount she is getting in the child support? Her needs, lifestyle, and standards of living may be different than yours, and you're probably bias towards your own lifestyle. For instance, I'm a nappyhead who hasn't had the luxury of getting her lovely nails professionally done yet - and I see $45 at a salon every week and getting your nails airbrushed every other weekend as a 'frivilous luxury' while some women see it as a 'neccessity' to be presentable for their jobs and such. I'm just sayin. We are bias toward our own lifestyle choices so it may be unfair to say what somebody else should or shouldn't need money for.

And I have little sympathy for fathers who are supposedly paying out the ye-yang to some 'deadbeat' momma while he is not being able to see his kid. First - ANYONE who is physically, financially, and emotionally taking care of a child is not and can not be a deadbeat. Regardless of where the money comes from (welfare, CS, illegal activities, amoral activities, or employment), taking care of children ain't no walk in the park and EVERYONE will tell you it's difficult (albeight rewarding) work. Anyone serious about it knows its a job and you gotta put in work. I was a welfare momma and definitely wasn't no deadbeat contrary to popular belief about welfare mommas. And you best believe, I want all the CS I can get! I can imagine my kid's father's girlfriend sayin 'why you gotta pay her so much money? She don't need it!'

Really, how she know what I need and what for? She ain't taking care of my kids, I am!

2ndly - fathers have OPTIONS. Yeah, they might say 'I feel weird as a man taking a woman to court over my kids' but hell with that. If he is paying court ordered CS especially - he has OPTIONS. A woman can not deny a man a right to see his kids if the court has not prevented him from seeing them. In most states, she can be arrested and fined for not following a court order that allows him visitation. Yeah, I know - men usually don't wanna go that far in having their kid's momma arrested, but why not? In some instances if she knows (or if he threatens her with it) that she can be jailed or fined for not allowing him to see his kids, then she may (should) rescind on letting him see his kids. Welfare (now called TAFNF) has program called 'Father's Fair Share' that is suppose to assist low-income men whose babies momma receive welfare - to assist them with child support causes and visitation rights. I currently don't know much about the program since I am not a father and I don't know any father's who have used the program to assist them with that. But it's there.

It's that machismo BS that has (black men especially) saying they don't want to take the momma to court or threaten them with arrest for them not being able to see their kids because they figure a man is not suppose to do a woman like that, especially the momma of his kids. But if she wanna wanna be like - then you gotta do whatchu gotta do. If the shoe was on the other foot, I don't think a woman would hesitate. I know I wouldn't.

But you know what? - some men just don't wanna see their kids. They want to have something to complain about - ' You know I give that heffa $500 a month and she don't do nuthin but blow it on her clothes and hair. The kids might get 1 outfit a piece while she get 6 outfits and her hair done. And on top of it, I don't even get to see my kids! She keepin them from me.'

Waaah, waahh, waaahh. I say if he don't like the way his baby-momma(s) is taking care of his kids - he should a) fight and take custody of them; b) take her to court, tell the judge and fight for his visitation and/or a reduction in CS, c) try to talk to her and make some arrangements among themselves; d) grin, bear it, and shut up.

I do think courts are bias toward women when it comes to CS, but courts are bias on giving women CS and then not allowing men to see or spend time with their children. Men need to forgo the BS and do what they gotta do.

And once they exhausted their options and it still doesn't work, then I'll have more pity for them and the 'deadbeat' momma he gotta give money too.

[Single Mama Diva]

Very true. In his particular situation, however, he has been paying for daycare and the child has been out of day care for the last four years. Instead of the mom adjusting it as I had to do for my children's father, she would not do it. He let it go, because he figured she needed it, but when he has asked to see his child she has refused.

Finally he had to let the worker know of the non-cooperation and they are fixing everything now.

I think the sad thing is that we have all reduced ourselves to allowing the government to come in and solve problems for us that we should be working out ourselves. Men thought they were getting off easy by letting the government take care of their children, and women have convinced themselves that they don't need the men, now the government practically owns the children.

The truth is that we all need each other to raise these children. In this generation of narcissism the kids are getting the message that everything is about money, while the family is dying. I was hoping that things would get better but it looks as though it is getting worse.

Being objective about the other mama is very easy for me because I am a baby's mama too. As a matter of fact we would get into it, because I don't hesitate to tell him if he is wrong. LOL! I am always on the woman's side until she has proven that she is REALLY messed up. Bottom line...it is not about the man or the woman, but the child.

So far it is very clear that men and women have so much work to do when it comes to being fair, communicating and keeping it all about the kids. I wonder how many men listened to The president's speech about fatherhood? He seemed to be very dissapointed about the number of missing black fathers. I am grateful for the fathers that are involved, but the ones that are not for one reason or another I pray for them to wake up and for brothers and sisters to work together once again.